Women in Films: An Interview with Aisha Arif Khan
- Aymen Saqib ; Romessa Nadeem
- Jan 1, 2018
- 6 min read
How has your experience been so far in the film industry?
I am not an actively practicing filmmaker since my return to Pakistan and there have been reasons behind that. One reason was that there was a lot of sexism. Particularly when I came back after my degree in 2009. If we talk about the film industry, there wasn’t one. It was nonexistent at the time. And then a few independent films started to be released. I was asked to multiple times (to join the industry). But I truly felt that I couldn’t work with those people because I felt my orientation was very different due to a formal training in film production. And no disrespect to anybody, but I was used to working a certain way. Then secondly yes it was very hard because as a woman, I think people approach you differently. As a single woman, they particularly approach you differently. As it is an unstructured industry, there is no accountability. You’re just very objectified as a woman. I feel that. As men also, to be fair. I think if you go in the fashion industry I think male models also go through a lot.
In Pakistan too?
In Pakistan particularly. Not abroad. Because abroad there is a structure. There is an industry. Industry makes a difference. There isn’t a film industry in Pakistan. And to this day, there isn’t. The situation has changed in India, because now you have PR agents, you have contracts, there are corporate houses involved. The casting couch culture still exists, I think, because it’s the nature of the business but there’s a greater sense of professionalism and a stronger work ethic.
When you came to Pakistan, did you step into the industry?
There were opportunities in television, there were a lot of opportunities. And if I really felt strongly about it, I could have gone into television. I could have probably even made a film. Mujhe ye itna meaningful nahin laga. Mujhe ye ziada meaningful laga ke mein parhaoon for some reason. Because I truly felt that we need people who can sort of understand and see things a certain way. And that’s where I truly felt like I could add value. So maybe it’s a personal journey also. I think partly that’s another thing. And maybe if I didn’t have to live in Pakistan, maybe my choices would have been different. But I have to live in this country also so I think I had to think about my overall well-being.
Do you think our film industry is growing?
Mein dobara ye kahoon gi, hamari industry nahin hai. So I would just really like to make that clear. Barh bhi nahin rahi hai. Some people are making some independent films. The biggest force is the ISPR so imagine how gross the situation is in terms of a competitive market. Ke agar koi film banti hai baray budget ki ya chalti hai to wo ISPR funded hoti hai aur uss ka aik agenda hota hai. Ye to industry na hui na?
You said that you wanted to teach people so they could add value to this “industry”, so that they could do something about it in the future. What do you think the graduates of S3H could bring to this? How could they help the situation? What could they do?
I think some of the kids, maybe one or two in a batch, I really find them to be very talented and really passionate. And some of the kids actually discover it while I teach them. See, not everyone can be a filmmaker. It’s a very underestimated and undervalued sort of a profession in Pakistan. It’s like a calling in life. I think some 3 or 4 students, I would say, that I found to be that interested in the medium or in storytelling or I think who would make a difference. I think we’re not in art school and we’re not in film school. We’re a Mass Comm department. Having said that, I think we’ve come a long way and that’s something that I really wanted. 2k11’s batch I would say particularly was a very good batch. 2k11 was that batch jin ko sab ko bara shok tha production ka.
Who’s your favorite female character from any movie you’ve seen?
Out of Africa mein Meryl Streep ka character tha, Karen Blixen. That’s what inspired me. Out of Africa was the film I saw when I was really young. Mein bohot choti thi. So I think that made me really want to become a filmmaker because it was such a beautiful film and brilliantly done and Meryl Streep’s acting was so great. So it had a central character who was a woman, a strong woman, somebody who went to Africa and then just lived life on her own terms. She was a baroness from Denmark and she had a very independent unconventional life. She worked with communities in Africa and I felt like that was the character I related to subconsciously although I wasn’t so aware of it but I think that’s the character that has stayed with me. I feel like I could live like that. And then Scarlett O Hara’s character in terms of her independence also. So both very independent women.
So what’s your least favorite stereotype or film trope that they assign to women in movies?
There are so many!
But the most damaging?
I think stereotyping women, I’ll be honest, Indian films are more related to our context. Unhon ne ab aurton ko insaanon ki tarah dikhana shuru ker dia hai. Ke un ke goals bhi hotay hain, bas larka unhain nahin dekhta aur aik dam ussay dekh ker mohobat nahin ho jati. A relationship develops and the girl has some agency to say yes or no which we still do not see in our dramas. In really old films, the woman is an object. Other stereotypes; evil saas hoti hai, aik compliant daughter in law hoti hai, aik sacrificing wife hoti hai, phir aik vamp hoti hai. Logon ke characters iss tarah ke nahin hotay. Bohot oppressed aurat bichari ka jo stereotype hai jis ki koi agency nahin hoti; ya to wo khud zulm seh rahi hoti hai ya kisi aur aurat pe zulm ker rahi hoti hai. I think just the suppressed bichari aurat maybe is the type I can’t relate to at all.
What is your opinion about item songs? What is the significance of an item song?
Item songs are a South Asian phenomenon. It conforms to everything that our culture is about too. Women are generally so mistreated and objectified. Item song to bari commercial si cheez hai. If you look at it with a twisted manner maybe it is a woman exercising some agency, some sort of sexual power because she’s so powerless in all other areas so she is exercising sexual power. She is more powerful than the woman who does not exercise any power. Kamazkam uss mein thori si to liberation hai na ke wo uss ka access hai to the world, to a public space.
What are your thoughts on the Bechdel test? Is this a legitimate measurement of a woman’s character development in a movie?
This test I think is more about assessing gender. So for me as a filmmaker, as a storyteller, that’s a very different approach. Having said that, if you look at it from the lens of gender, so wo baat mein ne already kahi hai ke mujhe aisay lagta hai, and I think it can be tested, ke ab Indian film industry iss tarah ki nahin rahi. I think they’re talking about a lot of other things. Women are talking about other things. They’re not discussing men. I think the men are discussing women more in that kind of story. And I do think it varies from genre to genre also, even in Hollywood. It would not apply to all genres.
Pakistani ki film industry to nahin hai. Jis tarah ka pressure hum pe military empowered state ki waja se ata hai, do you think we’ll ever have that kind of freedom?
No.
Do you think we had a successful industry at one point?
Haan, we had a robust film industry. If you look at 70’s cinema, hamara aur Indian film industry ka aik dum (match tha.) Uss ke baad se Zia ul Haq ka dor shuru ho gaya, phir hum Zia ul Haq ke dor se hi guzar rahay hain.
Who’s your favorite Pakistani female actress from the seventies?
I’ve seen so many Urdu films. I think Noor Jahan was really interesting in terms of performance. Favorite actress meri Babara thi. Because I felt she was really stylish. She wasn’t so typical. She wasn’t this typical Pakistani heroine. And I also thought Neeli was very pretty. I didn’t think she was a great actress or anything. I just thought she was good looking. She didn’t look so typical like Shabnam was very… although Shabnam was not a bad actress, she was very typical, I felt, like hamming it always. So Babra, I think..
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